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Help with wiring a bender
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4664		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:14 am ]
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Hi folks, i'm trying to wire up my side bender but don't want to short the box, if you look at the pics below, there's a red type of wire it's romex, red & black inside, is it any good for my bender? There are 3-200 watts light bulbs. mouunted on ceramic fixtures and 3" insulated round boxes under the fixtures. I was also thinking of plugging each light separately in a power bar along with a electric timer. You're input would really be appreciated, if you know how to wire this properly and safely.










TIA! Serge
Author:  RCoates [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:50 am ]
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Serge

You red wire looks like it should work, however, you would be better off safety wise to use something that also had a ground wire in it. Also check the guage of the wire. Here in the states it should be at least 14 guage. Not sure how it's rated up north

Don't skimp here. Safety is a major concern. Find something with a ground wire in it.

The plug stip is not a bad idea. They usually have a breaker built in.
Author:  arvey [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:18 am ]
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I believe the Romax should be grounded wire, Make sure you use it, especially if you wet your sides. Here in Canada code calls for at least 14/2 grounded wire, I believe you have 12/2 so you are fine. If you arn't familiar with wireing though find someone who is, you don't want to be messing around with this.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:27 am ]
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Thanks Ronn and Richard, i'll be heading back to my shop to read what is written on that wire, but i think i saw 3 wires in it so there should be a ground one. If each bulb is plugged separately on a power bar, do i still need that red wire though? Wouldn't it simplify the wireing so that i can decide on how many bulbs to plug in at one time on the power bar?
Author:  Kim [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:34 am ]
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Serge, I know just enough about all things electrical to have someone qualified check my work before I throw the switch. Unless you are 110% confident in your understanding of electrical schematics, you should do the same, even if it cost you a few bucks.

I know that this is a pretty basic circuit, but make no mistake, electricity kills and it is not particular about who, I could not begin to imagine the anguish and guilt that would be associated with knowing something I put together was responsible for killing or injuring anybody, better safe than sorry.

Cheers

Kim


Author:  PaulB [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:38 am ]
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Yes, there's plenty of room for error, and no second chances. Even if you get advice here on how to do this, you really should get and electrician to have a look at it before you start using it.

I'm not an expert, but I did seek out expert advice before I started, I happened to work with an electrical engineer at the time. Here's how I did mine:

I wired my globes in parallel through a junction box, with the active wire running to a standard light switch, then back to the junction box and on to the globes. I plug it into a powerboard that has a built-in breaker. The metal parts must be earthed especially if the operator can touch them when in use. And importantly, it must be the active wire that goes to the switch, not the neutral; if it's the neutral that's switched the bender will still work, but the whole works are live even if it's swiched off - I'm told this is a common mistake that has resulted in death on more than one occasion.

Remember that if you screw it up it could kill you.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:52 am ]
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Thanks Kim and Paul, wisdom calls for me to get an electrician to do this. Doesn't matter what kind of wire this one is now, i'll just explain to the electrician what i need and he'll be the pro to judge on that. I'll just have to pay(grin) but i'll be safe!
Thanks again everyone!


Serge
Author:  arvey [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:17 am ]
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If you know someone who is an electrician or a contractor it shouldn't cost much, a couple of beer would be more than enough for me but the flight down would be a little expensive. By the way, Don't give him the beer till after the job is done
Author:  Dickey [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:48 am ]
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Serge, That looks a bit like wire for underwater. You see it in submersible well pump situations.

As for the ground, you probably noticed there are only two wires on your fixture, so the ground is for grounding the box in case a hot wire pops loose it shorts and throws the breaker.

In your pics, I don't see the boxes? Your wiring connections are made up inside the boxes normally. I can't believe you have porcelain base fixtures with wire leads, those are rare. I really like them, only seen them one time in 35 years, usually there are two screws, a brass one (hot) and a silver one (neutral) in a 110V. circuit.

A simple diagram is all you need to hook that up. It's wired in parallel, black to blacks (hot) and white to whites (neutral). 110V.

The wire in the pic is most likely not high temp, even on the fixtures. It would be best to have the wiring outside your box, and just have the bulbs enter the chamber, honest. I'm redesigning my next bender as I type this.   
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:50 am ]
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Got the message Richard! Where are ya from fellow, BC ? I'll have another friend of mine look at it tomorrow morning and if he can't do it, i'll hire a pro!

Thanks

SergeSerge Poirier38739.7864236111
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:03 am ]
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Thanks Bruce,

Sounds so easy when you explain it that way, but you see, when it comes to electricity, scares the crappers out of a buzzing Bear! I just talked to Steve, a friend of mine who's gonna meet me tomorrow morning to evaluate all this, but when he talked about it on the phone, it sounded pretty much like your explanations, so it makes me confident that he knows what he was talking about! He's gonna see that i can hook a timer to it as well. I'm going to keep you updated though, your advices are always thoughtful and appreciated.


Serge
Author:  arvey [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:39 pm ]
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From North Western Ontario Serge. Funny thing is that it costs more to Fly from here to Toronto (while not here but if I drive a few hours to Thunder bay) than it does to fly from Halifax to Vancouver. Get your friend to look at it and I am sure he can wire it. It is a real easy job but always worth being safe on. And I believe that Dicky is right, Nomax wire is used with submersible pumps.
Author:  Dickey [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:01 pm ]
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If you are going to use extreme caution doing something, electricity is a good thing to use it on.

That and flying small aircraft.   
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:14 pm ]
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Hey Richard, my wife is from Longlac, i'll bet it's not so far from your place huh ?

Bruce, please don't tell me you got yourself a pilot licence to drive that aircraft sittin' in your garage huh ?

And for the submersible pump wire, i'm pretty sure that Steve will probably have the right kind instead of this one, Can't wait to see the guy tomorrow and have my oven ready!

Sergio le Beario
Author:  arvey [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:50 pm ]
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Only three hours from Longlac, We will actually be up there next month for my son's hockey tournament. The Nomax wire would work but is probably over kill.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:55 pm ]
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I would have to agree with that since my friend explained the process to me and seemed not so worried about using something lighter, but, what can i say, when i see two extension chords on the shop floor, i wanna pass my head in the bandsaw!

Author:  Dickey [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:42 am ]
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Oven.... sounds like you are gonna make a cake instead of bend guitar sides....

Yes, gentlemen, please step this way and I will demonstrate my side bending oven! Serge, you're a riot!
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:54 am ]
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Yes Bruce, i'll bake a cake in there and it would be nice if you'd be able to send me your big fan there so i can cool it off afterwards

Serge

BTW, Steve saw my oven this morning and will wire it up tomorrow, i'm gonna let him do the first pluggin'! Serge Poirier38740.497650463
Author:  HankMauel [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:17 am ]
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Another suggestion...
Add a dimmer switch after the timer. That way you can alter the light intensity and thus "control" the temperatures to help in your bending processes.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:50 am ]
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Thanks for that very cool tip Hank, i wonder why i didn't think of it in the first place since i already have a few of them here!

I Really appreciate it

Serge
Author:  arvey [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:59 am ]
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A word of warning, Check the Watage on the dimmer switch first. All dimmers are not created equal.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:48 am ]
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how many watts for this dimmer switch Richard ?enough for 600 watts you mean ?Serge Poirier38740.5757407407
Author:  Dickey [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:09 am ]
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Harvey, Serge is in luck, Hank's suggestion of a dimmer is on target, and with 3 200watters Serge plans, a plain jane household type will work, rating - precisely 600 Watts. Serge, luck iz on yer side!

Gentlemen, step this way and I'll demonstrate my side bending oven. Now that we are nearly done gents, I'll dim the lights for a bit of atmosphere! Anyone for a little Crosby?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:14 am ]
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If you use a dimer for each bulb then rate slightly over the bulb ie. 200w blulb 300w dimer.

If one dimer for all the bulbs then yes.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:29 am ]
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Bruce, you're killing me man, next thing ya'll know ,i'll have a disco ball and lazer plus strobe lights in my shop, that is if ya come here with a skirt and git down at go-go dancin' my fwend !
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